The Only Way To Heaven

[GaZa]

ive been trying to tell u people ARNT born gay. Uve been trying to "forceively impose" that people are born that way and that it isnt an abomination according to the bible. Read all ur posts and try again.

Thats the same thing you wrote in the shoutbox did you really waste my time to look in this thread, I already told you why it is not an abomination because we have learned and growed on what causes the situation of homosexuality. Just reread my post and continue your senseless argument because i already told your several times my reasoning for why I believe in my statements.

 

[DM Deathrow]

Guys,

I think you should a hold a little respect for this thread. This is only a debatable and way of personally describing what you believe thread. There is no logical proof over which is more correct, nor enough scientific evidence on who's theory is more correct.

Please do not respond by posting vulgar language or flames at each other, because arguing over the internet (especially over a debate that CAN'T be proven) is very pointless if you understand.

If you can't, hold your tongue and refrain from posting.

Toonamii, don't bump old threads please n00b

 

[DM DHomeboy]

ill just go back to my original saying. People cant be born gay, and according to the bibe it is an abomination no matter what science says. Science has no matter in biblical matters. Its like saying incest isnt a abomination because blue skys with red clouds or some other (pointless science find) make bros like sisters.

 

[DM CharlesK]

This thread is intense!!!

 

[DM Psycotic]

Homeboy, kindly shut up, as you obviously dont know what you are talking about. If you had the ability to read, you would have seen what Gaza said about the chromosomes and the DNA and what not. If you think he is wrong, then you are doubting Science. Science is pretty much everything. It is the reason why you are in this site, it is the reason why you eat, it is the reason why you live. Without science, we humans would be nothing. There is no rule in science saying that we must not have a belief in God, and there is no rule in the Bible saying we must not believe in Science.
So, you have just been given evidence that a person is born homosexual. Scientific Proof.
Its the brain. The brain works in very mysterious ways, producing chemicals and what not. You cannot say that it has nothing to do with the brain, when it is.
As for you saying that homosexual people have a choice, if it is a choice, it is not a conscious choice.
My best friends sister is bisexual, and her first crush was on a girl. Her parents are both heterosexual, her entire family is heterosexual, and she is bisexual. We live in a country where for some reason, everyone is homophobic.
So, according to your theory, at the age of 5, when she first went to Pre- school, she made a choice to become homosexual? At an age where she knows nothing about the world? Or, perhaps, according to you, she was taught to be homosexual, or brought up around homosexual people?
It's the way that brains function. EVERYONE is different.
Do not say anything like: but it's not normal, cos IT IS. for something to be abnormal, it means that its the only thing or person in the whole world that is like that.
You have a rather foul mouth. Please go wash it out with some soap and water.
For someone who is fighting so badly to prove that homosexuality is betraying God, you aren't doing anything Christian.

 

[DM Hunt3r]

No one can really say science proves this and science proves that. You need to remember that science is nothing but the human interpretation of how things work. And as you know, humans are flawed. Many well known scientists believe that gravity doesn't even exist, that it is just an illusion. If this were true science would be completely different. Just things to think about people..

 

[DM MeNTaLiST]

Much of this thread seems to be pointless arguing..so I'm going to answer Psy directly.

ok, wtf is wrong with you guys and gay ppl?
how the hell would you know if its a requirement or a choice?
im pretty sure that you are too homophobic to go and ask them, too. if it is a choice, then how the hell do you explain gay children? having crushes on other males, or other females? does a child of 5 years of age have a choice? no. it cant even shit on the toilet for itself, let alone think for itself.
If you are a true Christian, you would accept it. you wouldnt hate it/ dislike it. you would live in harmony with it. "Love thy neighbour as yourself".
so, by saying that you hate homosexuals, who have done nothing wrong, or that it sickens you, is sinning. you are disobeying one of God's rules.
I myself am atheist, however i respect all religions, and i have respect for all kinds of thoughts and ways of life, etc.the thing that i find hard to understand is how EVERY religion says it is the correct religion, and we should all believe in that one specific religion. our own ideas are banished, and we are pushed towards a religion, and given a set of ideas, which are not our own. from a very young age, young children do not get a choice as to which religion they can believe in.
each religion has its own flaws and its religious book contradicts itself a few times...
if there is a creator(which many of you believe there is) then why let so many people be pained? in Christianity, i have been told that it is because of that stupid eve and adam, who disobeyed God's rules.
also, who created the creator? nothing simply exists. there must be a reason to everything...
i know i am a sinner. i know i am a non-believer, a questioner. but if the Christian God exists, then i will be forgiven.
also, i feel that Christians these days aren't Christians... "Love thy neighbour as yourself", the whole 'Jesus sacrificed his life for mankind. we should all get along and forgive each other'. Its not what most alleged "Christians" do nowadays.
furthermore, the "Christian" Church itself has disobeyed Gods rules. 'thou shalt not steal'/ 'thou shalt not bear false witness upon thy neighbour'. Also, the 4th commandment, about the "no work on sunday", priests work on sundays, and they get paid for that...;p

First, I do live in harmony with it. I treat gays the exact same way as I treat anyone else. Jesus sure didn't hate on them, why should I?
And yes, you should love your neighbor, but that doesn't mean you should love their sin. You can love your best friend but hate the fact that they lied to you about such and such. See what I'm saying? So, I love the people who are gay, I just don't love the fact that they're gay.

Next, saying that homosexuality sickens you isn't a sin. Homosexuality sickens God. Check out Leviticus. Again, you love the people, not the sin.

To your next topic.
Can you point me out a place where the Bible contradicts itself?

And yes, people are always influenced at a young age toward whatever those who raise them believe is true. That's not a religious thing, that's a human thing. It applies to all aspects of life.

Here's the thing about pain: We caused it. When God created us, he gave us free will. We aren't his puppets, we're his creations. However, Adam and Eve took that free will and decided to sin. This created the barrier between us. This is where pain began. And seeing us in pain pains God, but he will not stop it. Why? Not because he enjoys it. Not because he doesn't love us. He won't stop it because he gave us free will, and to violate that free will would be to go back on something he gave us a long time before. Humans love freedom, and hate the responsibility. That's the exact same thing that's happening here. All this chaos? God didn't cause it. We did.

And you say that nothing simply exists. What's your theory on how everything came to be, then? Cosmos? They simply exist. Some sort of big bang? (I'm not trying to sound sarcastic or anything here, I'm trying to remember all of the different theories. I'm sorry if I'm coming across rude at all.) The thing is, everything had to come from something. And it only makes sense that it all came from the one thing that didn't come from something. You see what I'm saying? It makes more sense to believe that an all-powerful God has always existed and always will created everything we see, than to believe that some powerless gasses just happened to mix together in a way that all this came to be.

You say that you're a sinner. We all are. It doesn't matter what religion, even as a Christian..I'm a sinner. That's our problem.
You say you're a non-believer. I cannot make you believe. I wouldn't want to. Forcing a belief onto someone is the farthest thing from love.
You say you're a questioner. So am I. And it's healthy. You see, there's too much religion these days. I'm sick of it. God wants to have a relationship with you. He wants it to be personal. Not a bunch of rules that we feel obliged to follow. What kind of love would that be? And what kind of relationship doesn't have questions?
You say that if there's a Christian God, you will be forgiven. That's your choice, and yours alone. God opened that door when Jesus gave his life, but you have to choose that forgiveness. Why? Because he gave you free will. He won't force himself upon you. That's not what he's about. That's not what love's about.

And you're right about Christians. We suck. ahaha. With a few exceptions, almost none of us are much anything like Jesus. And it's sad. The fact is, people don't have anything against Jesus: They're problem is with Christians. And I can't say that I blame them. The church has been screwing up for hundreds of years. Thousands, now.
So I won't tell you to look at Christians. Christians aren't the point. Paul knew it. 2 Corinthians 4:7 - "If you only look at us, you might as well miss the brightness." We're gonna fail. Repeatedly. Thank God (no pun intended) that Jesus won't. Ever.

my friend, my brother. i feel you are wrong here. we can go back to ancient greeks, waaayy before christ. there would be relationships between young boys and men.
they did not judge others by sexual orientation, but their status, their strength. so why should we in modern times?
they would have sex with women to reproduce, which is the main reason as to why we have sex. they would have sex with the boys for pleasure, as they couldnt have children. this practise was spread across the world, and im sure the romans did it too. Alexander the great was gay.
so, its not really any different to what happens nowadays in modern times.

Furthermore, what about homosexuality in animals?
animals dont have a choice. its instinctive. WE HUMANS are animals, too. just we have developed, evolved and moved on from the other animals.
ive given you some possible evidence that it is not a choice, now you try to prove me wrong.

i did not mean to disrespect you in any way, if i have. and if i have, i apologise.

I confess ignorance. I have a bad habit of "B.S.-ing" my way through things. Something I picked up in school. ;D

I still believe that it's a choice. A child can be born with musical talent, and choose not to do anything with music in his life. Just because there is some inclination doesn't mean that it's a requirement.
And, of course, I believe that humans are above animals. God made us to be caretakers of the world, he says. Obviously we're doing a sucky job, but that goes back to free will again.
A few years ago I took a course on evolution..a course on disproving macroevolution. It's a dying theory. Did you know that even a good number of non-religions scientists are discarding it? It simply isn't a solid theory. It made plenty of sense until one scientific breakthrough: Genetics. That was the final blow for macroevolution. You can do some of your own research if you'd like. Microevolution (when animals adapt to changes, yet remain within their species) is scientifically proven. However, macroevolution (when animals adapt to changes by changing species) isn't possible, as discovered by research in DNA and genetics.
And true, there are so many similarities between animals and humans in their makeup..but consider that the author's signature. Ahaha. Every creator has a feature that is like their trademark.
I'm not scientifically advanced enough to prove to you anything, I confess. So I won't try to "prove" you wrong.


And there's nothing to apologize for, bro. Nothing at all.

 

[DM xAsSaSsiiNo-]

ur not born straight or gay just later in a gay person life dey say hey i like penis den its all anal from there

 

[DM Psycotic]

Next, saying that homosexuality sickens you isn't a sin. Homosexuality sickens God. Check out Leviticus. Again, you love the people, not the sin.

And yes, people are always influenced at a young age toward whatever those who raise them believe is true. That's not a religious thing, that's a human thing. It applies to all aspects of life.

And you say that nothing simply exists. What's your theory on how everything came to be, then? Cosmos? They simply exist. Some sort of big bang? (I'm not trying to sound sarcastic or anything here, I'm trying to remember all of the different theories. I'm sorry if I'm coming across rude at all.) The thing is, everything had to come from something. And it only makes sense that it all came from the one thing that didn't come from something. You see what I'm saying? It makes more sense to believe that an all-powerful God has always existed and always will created everything we see, than to believe that some powerless gasses just happened to mix together in a way that all this came to be.



I still believe that it's a choice. A child can be born with musical talent, and choose not to do anything with music in his life. Just because there is some inclination doesn't mean that it's a requirement.
A few years ago I took a course on evolution..a course on disproving macroevolution. It's a dying theory. Did you know that even a good number of non-religions scientists are discarding it? It simply isn't a solid theory. It made plenty of sense until one scientific breakthrough: Genetics. That was the final blow for macroevolution. You can do some of your own research if you'd like. Microevolution (when animals adapt to changes, yet remain within their species) is scientifically proven. However, macroevolution (when animals adapt to changes by changing species) isn't possible, as discovered by research in DNA and genetics.
And true, there are so many similarities between animals and humans in their makeup..but consider that the author's signature. Ahaha. Every creator has a feature that is like their trademark.
I'm not scientifically advanced enough to prove to you anything, I confess. So I won't try to "prove" you wrong.


And there's nothing to apologize for, bro. Nothing at all.

okay, well, the bible was not written by God, but by PEOPLE who believed in Him. i wasnt alive back then, so i cant say whether whoever wrote in the bible actually did hear God speak, or whether he was crazy and deluded or what not. But what i can say, is that there is always the possibility that he added his own feelings, or that his original words got twisted somewhere down the line. I'm not saying that he did do it, but im just giving out some possibilities.
Secondly, about it being a choice, i posted some reasons as to why its NOT a choice, quite a few times... check out my last post, and Gaza's post. I think its just how the brain works, and its not a choice. Some people are born with natural musical talent, like you and me, others are not. So, why cant people be born with Homosexuality, or heterosexuality? (if that sentence even makes any sense...)
Thirdly, i dont really have a theory about the creation of Earth, as i dont know all the facts, but i would probably have to say the big bang theory... Im no scientist, and nor am i a religious expert, so i cant say anything other than what i, as an ordinary person know. what i have been taught, what i have thought up for myself.
i dont know how humans came to existence, i cant say what is right or wrong. but all i said was that everything has a reason to existing, and a certain way of being there. this kind of thing is just pretty much unexplainable by anyone, and thats why it makes more sense to believe in God.

Religion was formed by man, as Hope. as a belief that there is something higher than us. that there is life after death. religion is a way of explaining things that simply cannot be explained by other means.

Also, something that just struck my mind, a question, of course. In the bible, does it mention anything about any other planets? or just earth? Did god make those too? i dont think theres a mention of aliens, or that he created them
i had a lot of other things to say, but the girl who im obsessed with Skyped me, and i forgotxD

 

[DM DHomeboy]

look psy. No need to start flaming because ur gonna look as dumb as gaza. I dont really care about what SCIENCE said, I say "According to the bible Gayness is an abomination." Which is true. Gaza says NO it aint (saying that the exact words written in the bible are a lie because of what science says.) He believes that people are just born gay. That isnt possible seeing that people arnt born straight. That science BS may be what it says but u arnt comprehending shit straight. Yeah genes and chromasomes will be fucked up and change how a person is and w/e but it doesnt make em gay.. Just guys more feminine and females more masculine. Soooo doesnt mean that they like the same sex. Society says that but w/e. Also dnt go that route saying that i dnt know how to read i mean come on now, I said People arnt born gay, and Homosexuality is an abomination. Never did i throw science in the situation, gaza did tho. He is trying to get me to believe the same stupid facts that you believe, and that is that people are born likeing the same sex. Get this thru ur head, People arnt BORN heterosexual OR homosexual. Maybe more like the opposite sex but, that doesnt say that they are gay. Neither you or gaza can comprehend that. this is hilarious 2 because u guys r scouring the internet for answers and dont even know wtf ur copy and pasting LMFAO. Please o please call me stupid again.

 

[DM Viktomize]

Nice fucking essays guys holy shit.

 

[SpEeD]

Calm Down People

 

[DM Psycotic]

look psy. No need to start flaming because ur gonna look as dumb as gaza. I dont really care about what SCIENCE said, I say "According to the bible Gayness is an abomination." Which is true. Gaza says NO it aint (saying that the exact words written in the bible are a lie because of what science says.) He believes that people are just born gay. That isnt possible seeing that people arnt born straight. That science BS may be what it says but u arnt comprehending shit straight. Yeah genes and chromasomes will be fucked up and change how a person is and w/e but it doesnt make em gay.. Just guys more feminine and females more masculine. Soooo doesnt mean that they like the same sex. Society says that but w/e. Also dnt go that route saying that i dnt know how to read i mean come on now, I said People arnt born gay, and Homosexuality is an abomination. Never did i throw science in the situation, gaza did tho. He is trying to get me to believe the same stupid facts that you believe, and that is that people are born likeing the same sex. Get this thru ur head, People arnt BORN heterosexual OR homosexual. Maybe more like the opposite sex but, that doesnt say that they are gay. Neither you or gaza can comprehend that. this is hilarious 2 because u guys r scouring the internet for answers and dont even know wtf ur copy and pasting LMFAO. Please o please call me stupid again.

Alright, i will only call you stupid one last time. i didnt fucking scour the internet for answers, and nor did i fucking copy/paste.
other than that, now, get THIS "thru" YOUR head, that what i said was that:
ITS TO DO WITH YOUR BRAIN AND HOW YOUR SYSTEM IS CREATED AND WHATEVER. IM NO SCIENTIST, BUT WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT EVERY ONE THINKS DIFFERENTLY, EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. WELL, SEEING AS THE BRAIN IS SO FUCKING COMPLEX, SOMETIMES, IT WILL MAKE YOU ATTRACTED TO THE SAME SEX.
aight. now dont you dare say that its wrong, because im not saying its 100% right. yes, in the bible, it says what you said, but it doesnt mean that people are or are not born straight or homosexual.
just read all of my posts, from the beginning, if you can be bothered to care. otherwise, dont reply, please =.=

ok, can we please chill now?

P.S. i like how you mention the word 'fact'. if its a fact, its true. congratulations on contradicting yourself;p
ok, im going to stop now, if you stop...

 

[DM Michigan]

Why would someone chose to be gay?

 

[DM Toonaami]

Why would someone chose to be gay?

Why would you want to be straight?

 

[GaZa]

look psy. No need to start flaming because ur gonna look as dumb as gaza. I dont really care about what SCIENCE said, I say "According to the bible Gayness is an abomination." Which is true. Gaza says NO it aint (saying that the exact words written in the bible are a lie because of what science says.) He believes that people are just born gay. That isnt possible seeing that people arnt born straight. That science BS may be what it says but u arnt comprehending shit straight. Yeah genes and chromasomes will be fucked up and change how a person is and w/e but it doesnt make em gay.. Just guys more feminine and females more masculine. Soooo doesnt mean that they like the same sex. Society says that but w/e. Also dnt go that route saying that i dnt know how to read i mean come on now, I said People arnt born gay, and Homosexuality is an abomination. Never did i throw science in the situation, gaza did tho. He is trying to get me to believe the same stupid facts that you believe, and that is that people are born likeing the same sex. Get this thru ur head, People arnt BORN heterosexual OR homosexual. Maybe more like the opposite sex but, that doesnt say that they are gay. Neither you or gaza can comprehend that. this is hilarious 2 because u guys r scouring the internet for answers and dont even know wtf ur copy and pasting LMFAO. Please o please call me stupid again.

Your filled with stupidity aren`t you. You continue to purpose an arguement with out thinking it through. You freely admitted yesturday that you do not go to church. Furthermore you don`t even know which part in the bible you continualy try to argue about. You persue an arguement wiithout legitimate knowledge. Yes , I am calling you unintelligent. Additionally, you can`t quote a statement if its not exact words``"According to the bible Gayness is an abomination."``(Basic English Retard). Furthermore, every statement you make is in agreeness to mine.`` Yeah genes and chromasomes will be fucked up and change how a person is and w/e ``. So i don`t understand why you continue to purpose your arguement without resonable understaning of this situation. Answer this DH, If Homosexuality is an abomination, why is it that homosexuals are accepeted in our church today, why is it that we have so many Homosexuals following the religion. If it was an abomination they would not be accepted in our Churches. Give me a reasonable answer that makes sense, and stop jumping from one arguement to another trying to keep your statements alive.

 

[DM Marine]

omg would ya stop?

 

[DM MeNTaLiST]

okay, well, the bible was not written by God, but by PEOPLE who believed in Him. i wasnt alive back then, so i cant say whether whoever wrote in the bible actually did hear God speak, or whether he was crazy and deluded or what not. But what i can say, is that there is always the possibility that he added his own feelings, or that his original words got twisted somewhere down the line. I'm not saying that he did do it, but im just giving out some possibilities.
Secondly, about it being a choice, i posted some reasons as to why its NOT a choice, quite a few times... check out my last post, and Gaza's post. I think its just how the brain works, and its not a choice. Some people are born with natural musical talent, like you and me, others are not. So, why cant people be born with Homosexuality, or heterosexuality? (if that sentence even makes any sense...)
Thirdly, i dont really have a theory about the creation of Earth, as i dont know all the facts, but i would probably have to say the big bang theory... Im no scientist, and nor am i a religious expert, so i cant say anything other than what i, as an ordinary person know. what i have been taught, what i have thought up for myself.
i dont know how humans came to existence, i cant say what is right or wrong. but all i said was that everything has a reason to existing, and a certain way of being there. this kind of thing is just pretty much unexplainable by anyone, and thats why it makes more sense to believe in God.

Religion was formed by man, as Hope. as a belief that there is something higher than us. that there is life after death. religion is a way of explaining things that simply cannot be explained by other means.

Also, something that just struck my mind, a question, of course. In the bible, does it mention anything about any other planets? or just earth? Did god make those too? i dont think theres a mention of aliens, or that he created them
i had a lot of other things to say, but the girl who im obsessed with Skyped me, and i forgotxD

I totally get what you're saying. I've had the same thoughts. And, on top of all that, another set of flawed humans decided which works would go into the Bible, and which ones didn't make the cut. So I can understand different thought processes and similar, but I haven't seen a solid contradiction yet.

I was having a lot of trouble sifting the important information out of some of the earlier posts. There was a lot of flaming and little actual debate. I get what you're saying about being born with certain characteristics that would make you homosexual or heterosexual, but I still think that it's a choice on top of that. I don't disagree at all that they can be born with these tendencies, but I don't think that they're entirely trapped by it.

It does make more sense to believe in God, though. It's the simplest answer. Ockham's Razor can even be applied. And you can apply Pascal's Wager on top of that.

Here's the problem with that. Sure, man could come up with religion. But man couldn't come up with God.
I think Plato had an argument that fit this situation. And maybe Descartes? I can't remember who else it was.
Can a blind man imagine light? Of course not. Nor can a deaf man imagine sound. They would have had to had some past experience with it to imagine it. So, in order for man to imagine God..man would have had to have to experience with him.
Or, indirectly. A blind man may be able to imagine light if his friend describes it to him. But if light didn't exist, then how could anyone explain it or know of it? In the same way, if God didn't exist, how could anyone explain him or know of him?
I'm really trying hard to think of the philosopher who pushed this..but it's escaping me.

Sure it does. Genesis 1:1, actually. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens would involve stars, planets, and galaxies. Now, I can't say anything as far as aliens goes..at least, in the form of life on other planets. But Genesis does talk about sea monsters.

Ahaha, uh oh. Get it! ;D

 

[DM FlyMEXboy]

Yea we came from sea creatures. Bowser that theory u talk about mentalist. That that without experience we can't imagine it. Well look at technology now. No past experience but it's here and real! Explain THAT



everybody stop the fucking bickering and debate in a mature manner or I will close the thread! And give temp banns

 

[DM Psycotic]

I totally get what you're saying. I've had the same thoughts. And, on top of all that, another set of flawed humans decided which works would go into the Bible, and which ones didn't make the cut. So I can understand different thought processes and similar, but I haven't seen a solid contradiction yet.

I was having a lot of trouble sifting the important information out of some of the earlier posts. There was a lot of flaming and little actual debate. I get what you're saying about being born with certain characteristics that would make you homosexual or heterosexual, but I still think that it's a choice on top of that. I don't disagree at all that they can be born with these tendencies, but I don't think that they're entirely trapped by it.

It does make more sense to believe in God, though. It's the simplest answer. Ockham's Razor can even be applied. And you can apply Pascal's Wager on top of that.

Here's the problem with that. Sure, man could come up with religion. But man couldn't come up with God.
I think Plato had an argument that fit this situation. And maybe Descartes? I can't remember who else it was.
Can a blind man imagine light? Of course not. Nor can a deaf man imagine sound. They would have had to had some past experience with it to imagine it. So, in order for man to imagine God..man would have had to have to experience with him.
Or, indirectly. A blind man may be able to imagine light if his friend describes it to him. But if light didn't exist, then how could anyone explain it or know of it? In the same way, if God didn't exist, how could anyone explain him or know of him?
I'm really trying hard to think of the philosopher who pushed this..but it's escaping me.

Sure it does. Genesis 1:1, actually. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens would involve stars, planets, and galaxies. Now, I can't say anything as far as aliens goes..at least, in the form of life on other planets. But Genesis does talk about sea monsters.

Ahaha, uh oh. Get it! ;D

xD no matter what i say, i can never hold an argument for too long... i gotta work on thatxD
im sure that the first people to think up the Gods, just thought of them as leaders, to rule them. i dont think they knew it would go this far...
now that i mentioned GodS, it got me thinking about how many different religions there are, all saying they are the correct one, and you should worship no other God. They all say pretty much the same thing, and most of them created the world. so, how do we know which one is the correct one? did they all just join up and create the world together? XD
that there^^ is one of the reasons why i dislike religions..